#007 Tom Runnells - Toledo Mud Hens

Former MLB player, manager, and current Toledo Mud Hens broadcast color analyst Tom Runnells takes you inside his baseball career, the love of the game, and his life after baseball through art.

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Well, hello everyone. Welcome to Holy Toledo Sports Edition. I'm Brad Rieger, and today we got a special guest, Tom Runnels. Tom had 41 years in Major League Baseball as a player, a coach, and a manager, including two seasons managing the Tloodle Mudhens. And he's done all kinds of cool things after he's been done with the game of baseball. So please tune in and welcome Tom Runnels. Tom Runnels, it's great to be here with you. And we've known each other for a long time. But there's some things I don't know about you. So I thank you for giving us an opportunity to talk about your 41 years in major leagues as a player, a coach, as a manager, and some things you're doing post your playing days and managing days that are really cool too. So thanks for being here. Well, um, 41 years, two of those years, Tom, you were the manager here for the Flutel Mudhens, 1995 and 96. Very good. Um, if you look back on those two years, what did those two years, how did it impact you professionally and personally? Well, uh I'd be remiss if I didn't go straight to I met my wife while I was managing here. Way to lead with the right power. That's right. Uh Chris Peterson. Uh she was a news anchor at WTOL on Channel 11, and uh I was fortunate enough to meet her here. Uh actually on the way back from uh a game in Richmond, Virginia. We ran into each other at the Pittsburgh Airport, and then again at the Toledo Airport, Toledo Express, and uh the rest is history with that. And it's been a it's been a great ride with her. But I loved uh loved managing here. Um I'd been with the tiger organization for a couple of years. Uh very uh tumultuous time with the Tigers as they changed general managers uh quite a bit during that period. Um went from Jerry Walker to Joe Klein. Uh I was kind of given an indication when I came from Montreal Expos. I had been fired the year before in Montreal. This was in 1992. So 1993 was my first year with the Tigers, and kind of given an idea that I might be a manager in waiting behind Sparky Anderson. Um so I was willing to manage at the AA level for a couple of years, and then uh I came to Toledo again with the intentions that uh eventually I might get an opportunity to get back into big leagues as a manager. Um so it was uh very interesting. It was also during a strike year. Right, 94, 95. 94, 95. And um that was a real tough situation, uh, you know, but everybody had me pegged as being the next manager for Detroit uh during the replacement players period. I was asked to manage the Detroit Tigers team, and it went from when we settled the strike and they got things underway, Sparky came back, and I came to Toledo. Uh how many games did you coach at the during that strike year? All the it was just through spring training. We made it all the way to the very last day of spring training, and we were gonna actually have opening day in two days. We were already unpacked into old Tiger Stadium. I would not actually uh put my things in Sparky's office out of respect to him. So I had my own little locker with all the players, uh and it was looking like it was gonna be a go, and then they settled the strike and things uh were taken care of, and I was back in Toledo. And when you were co uh managing here, Tom, you uh obviously were at Ned Skeldon Stadium, which had some character to it. Yes, it did. Uh the old fairgrounds, it's hey, listen, at the time I loved it. Um, you know, the one thing that uh I think a lot of players and and people complained about, but I didn't mind it at all, is that you actually walk through the fans, you know, as you were going back to the clubhouse. Um, you know, so there was a lot of interaction with fans at that time, and you know, you actually get to stop and talk to them and spend some time with them, and it was kind of cool. Um now you you know players just run into the dugout and down the tunnel and up into their locker room, and there's you know, the only interaction is if they want to have it. We didn't have that choice. You really were gonna get it good and bad, but uh I I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. And you know, the ball flew out of there was a great hitter's ballpark. I remember a lot of the players we had there loved hitting there. Pitchers didn't like it so much, but um uh it was good. It was a great two years, had competitive teams, um, and again, just loved managing and getting those relationships going with those players. So your playing days, Tom, you uh grew up in Greeley, Colorado. You were a standout baseball player in Greeley West High School, then you went on to Northern Colorado, same standout uh performance there. You were drafted in 1977 by the San Francisco Giants and played in the minors eight, nine years, second baseman, won some awards for your defensiveness there, your defensive proudness. And then in 1985, the Cincinnati Reds called you up to the show. And for the 85, 86 years, uh you played in the show. About those two years with the Cincinnati Reds, what really stays with you 40 years later here? Well, let's let we might let's get this straight. I was a shortstop. Not a second baseman. I wasn't a second baseman until a guy in the Reds organization came along that they wanted me to tutor a little bit, and his name was Barry Larkin, and then they moved me over to second base. So I I I that was okay. Got it. Okay. Um you know what? Um my time as a player as a big leaguer uh obviously was short, um, parts of two seasons. Um but it was at a it was at a great time in baseball. And I happened to be with the Reds when Pete Rose was the player manager. Um and and I was with him, got a base hit the same night that he tied Ty Cobb's hit record, um, was with him when he broke the record. Uh it was it was a very special time to be with the Cincinnati Reds at that time. And uh of course, making it to the big leagues after nine years of playing in the minor leagues was um it was very gratifying. You know, it was it wasn't something that was given to me. I I really feel like I worked and and paid my dues to get there, but it made it even sweeter when I did get there. I've I've heard you describe in other interviews, Tom, that uh the way you describe yourself is that you were an old minor league up and down player with no guarantees. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? Well, uh considering my age at 29, I had in my mind, I think when I signed uh with the Giants back when I was 21, I thought, okay, if I can get to the big leagues by the time I'm 25, I'm good. Well, 25 came and went real fast. So I was 29 years old when I got a chance to get to the big leagues. And I Pete Rose even wrote about it in a book about my perseverance, you know, because most people would quit. I mean, you don't really make a whole lot of money. Back then, we didn't make a whole lot of money in the minor leagues. Um, but I just I just did not want to give up that goal of of making it to the big leagues someday, and and so and I enjoyed playing so much I I didn't want to do anything else. Um as far as the guarantees, I mean, I tell you this, and I've told it many times, out of 41 years in professional baseball, I had a multi-year contract once. Every other contract was one year, and I never knew if I was gonna have a job the following year. It really depended on how I played. And you kind of hoped and prayed that you know they're gonna send me a contract in the winter time, but you really never knew. Even if you had a decent season, you didn't know if some younger player was gonna take your position. So again, and the only time that I did have a two-year contract was when I was a manager of the expos and I got fired. So not a lot of job security anywhere in Major League Baseball, right? Correct, correct. Oh wow. Um you pivoted. Oh, let me let me you have this all these years, uh decades of being a coach and a manager. If you had to go back to Tom Runnels, the player, what what advice would you give yourself now? Oh my, you know, I the the one thing that I I'm really proud of is my work ethic and my determination to accomplish a goal. If I could think back about my goals and and uh that time, I would I wouldn't just settle for being a major league player. I would have been happier if I could have stuck around, you know, five, six, ten years in the big leagues and played and maybe even excelled at the major league level. Um it was an interesting time. Uh it was uh at the beginning of the the um steroids were being uh introduced to some of the players, and uh that was something that definitely I was not interested in in dealing with. But um, yeah, I I don't know that I would have told myself to do anything different. Uh on the job training, basically. Yeah, I mean it was it was really um I I gave it everything that I had, and I look back now and and I I would not probably do anything different. You pivoted into uh coaching. Was that a was that part of the strategic plan for you? Uh probably not. Um if you I'll tell you exactly how it happened. Um I was playing for the Reds uh in in AAA for Denver. We were called the Denver Zephyr, and we were playing the Indianapolis Indians at the time, and they were the farm team for the uh Montreal Expos. And um it was interesting because we had this great battle. It was the championship series, seven-game series. It was tied up three and three, playing the final game in Indianapolis. Uh we took a lead, I think, five to three going into the ninth inning. Brought in Rob Dibble, big time closer for the Cincinnati Reds, and he ended up giving up the game in the ninth inning, and we lost six to five. And I was devastated. You know, I had former manager of the Mudhens, Lloyd McClendon, was at first base. I was playing second base. We had Paul O'Neill, Eric Davis on the team. We had some big names. We did, we had some great big names, uh, but we ended up losing. Um, I can I think you remember the defeats more than the victories, right? Oh, yeah. I do, I do. I it was a base hit. Billy Moore got a base hit to left field. Orsino Hill, whose son played here also in in Toledo for a little bit. He was our left fielder, threw the ball home, overthrew the cutoff man, two run scored. And all I remember is Dallas Williams and all these guys running around the field jumping for joy. And Skeeter Barnes, myself, and and Lloyd McClendon, we're like on our knees, just about ready to cry because we'd worked so hard and lost it in the final inning. And it was two outs and a two-two count, and we lost the game. So that's how close we were from winning a triple A, that AAA alliance is what it was called at the time. Um, we were that close to winning and ended up losing. Anyway, go in the locker room, devastated. In comes the minor league director, chief bender uh from the Reds, and and he he just came up to us and said, I'm we're not calling anybody up to the big leagues. And I had already been in the big leagues that year, up and down a couple of times, and I was like, What? You know, I fully expected being on the roster that they would call me up at the end of the year, and it didn't happen. And then during the year, they took me off the roster and he sent me a contract, and the contract was for less money than what I made the year before. Or he said, You could manage our A team and we'll give you a raise. So it was obvious what the Cincinnati Economic Incentive, it was obvious what they wanted me to do, and they wanted me to transition into coaching and managing. And I thought, well, you know what? Being able to go to a managing position at the A level. Right out of the gate. Right out of the gate without being a coach, without going in rookie ball or A-ball. I'm like, this is pretty good. And I'm gonna be managing guys that are a couple years younger than me, is all. So I jumped at it and I, you know, I got some advice from a couple other people that I really respected in the game, and I jumped at it and became a manager. And you won a couple couple championships right out of the gate. I did, so that got the attention of the expos. Two out of the first three years, we won championships. We were in the championship my very first year in 87 in Vermont, and then we won a championship in 88 in Chattanooga. Um, you know, I had some great players, um, you know, a lot of guys that ended up playing in the big leagues. Montreal came and interviewed me. Um and you were 36 at the time, 35, whatever. I was 30, maybe 34. I don't, because they interviewed me. I they hired me to manage the AAA team in Indianapolis, where I played my last game, and they'd won three championships in a row. Well, so I'm following some big shoes going in there. Well, we won a fourth championship, and I'm not sure that it's ever been done again or before, but we won four straight championships. I didn't. The guys I had, the Hall of Famers, Larry Walker, Randy Johnson, you know, players like that, they won the championship. But um, yeah, it was great. And then at the end of that season, um, I got called to be come up as an honorary coach in Montreal, had an interview with Buck Rogers, didn't think I was gonna be a part of that staff and have to go back to Indianapolis. I think Dave Dumbrowski, who was the general manager at the time, had a big influence, and um I ended up becoming the next third base coach and infield coach in Montreal in 1990. And then after that season in 1991, is when they fired Buck and then put me in as the manager, as the youngest at that time. So at that time, um things in Montreal with the Expos, there was a lot of volatility at the front office area, right? There was whether it's they build a new stadium, move the team out, a lot of volatility. And so you are inserted in as the manager. So there's two years there. What'd you learn about yourself? What'd you learn about organizations? What'd you learn about leadership? Oh my. Um you get you gotta have some thick skin, I know that. And uh certainly, you know, when you're on the rise as a young manager or in the minor leagues and you don't get the press, um, it's one thing. But when you're in a major city and a city that has not only has the English press but the French press, and you don't understand the. You're getting criticized in two languages. Oh, I was criticized heavily by two languages. Um, you know what? I it was the greatest experience ever, and I'm so thankful that I got to do that. Um listen, I I always will say this, and I think everyone that ever played for me or worked with me as a coach or a peer uh will understand that I cared a great deal about the the people that I work with. Um I made sure that they knew that, and probably too much sometimes that you know I get very attached or they try to create those trust relationships. But um yeah, it was uh it was a fantastic time, but it was under a very tumultuous time because of Dombrowski hired me, and a month later he left to go to the Florida Marlins. We had the wealthiest man in the ownership in Charles Bronfman, and he sold a team to a bunch of businessmen in Montreal, a collective group that really everyone had their own say how they wanted to do it. It was very difficult, and I'm not sure that they were financially capable of doing so. Um my first year as a manager, uh, the roof in Montreal fell in, it collapsed, and so we ended up having to spend um two and a half, three weeks to finish the season on the road. I had players uh have issues with family issues, and I'm like, hey, go take care of it, go take care of it. Well, they end up not coming back, and I get from the general managers like you gotta force them back, and is so it was pretty interesting. Um but it was it was a great time, some great players, uh, and some great relationships. Um you continued on coaching after uh and managing after the the expos. Let's jump ahead to that last um spot in uh Colorado from 2008 to 2016, which we finished your official part of your major league career. You were the bench coach, and you basically came back home, Colorado. It had to have been a just a great experience on multiple layers. I I can't express how lucky I was, how fortunate, blessed, grateful. Um my mom and dad were still alive at the time. Um so it was really nice to be able to be back home and you know, on day games, drive 45 miles to Greeley, Colorado, and spend the evening with them or you know, an off day with them on occasion. And they were in a nursing home and I was a big hit. I was a big hit at the nursing home. You'd walk in and you know, everybody knew you, you know, and they'd put you know signs outside each door and everything. It was really kind of cool. But um, yeah, just Colorado's a wonderful place to not only play but to work. I grew up there, obviously, lived there for 43 years before I moved away. Um the Rockies at the time were uh up and coming, they had some really positive things going on. Uh the president, the general manager, the owner who I know we went to high school together in Greeley. So uh a lot of strong connections with the organization. Um and it just I I mean, I really literally would thank my lucky stars every single day driving into Mile High Stadium, you know, or Couers Field at the time, and just thanking my my stars that this is this is where I get to work, looking out at the Rocky Matt Mountains. And oh, by the way, I get to be in the front row for a big league baseball game. Help me understand what a bench coach responsibility delineate that from the manager. Uh the only difference is I don't have to answer to the press. Uh it's the bench coach position to me, I think, is and it may have changed now, because there's a lot of things that have changed in the game today. But back then it was um probably the greatest position to hold in in baseball because I got to coach still. Um I got to teach the players, and I also got to manage the baseball game. And my job as the manager or the bench coach was to manage a baseball game but stay steps ahead of the manager and present him with options before those uh situations arose so that he would have an idea in his head how he was gonna play it out and he wasn't caught off guard. That's basically what a good bench coach does is try to help the manager manage through a baseball game without being surprised and to be able to make the the best decisions, you know. And I know people can say, well, how do you you know baseball's boring, it's slow, but when you have to make decisions sometimes in a game in the seventh and eighth inning, or when you have to pinch it for a pitcher and get another pitcher ready, uh, you know, it it can happen a lot faster than people think. So that was a big part of my game. Um, telling hitters to be ready two innings away that you know, um a right hander's coming in and I know he's gonna win a left-handed pinch hitter, so be ready. So they'd run up to the cage and get loose and come back and be ready. That was game stuff, which was great. I loved it. I loved the competition. Um, but during the day I would run, I would do all the pre-workout stuff. I'd help make out the lineup every day. Um, we'd put out fires every day if there were situations amongst players, and you know, I would try to settle it before I'd have to take them into the manager's office. A lot of times they ended up in there anyway, but um, you know, uh making sure all the all the fundamentals were covered from all the positions, pitching, catching, outfield, infield, and then actually coach. Um, and I got to do that, which was really kind of fun. And that's something that I, you know, the minute I took over as a manager my very first year in the minor leagues, we didn't have seven coaches. We didn't have 12 coaches. It was a pitching coach and a manager, and that was it. So I was the infield coach, outfield coach, hitting coach, catching coach, you know, so I was able to do all of that then, and so it was it was fun. Can we talk about umpires? Oh, sure. So if you had to describe your relationship with Blue, the umpire staff, what would that how would you describe that? You know, umpires are in the news today. No, they are. Um, listen, I got along great with umpires. Um, as a player and as a coach and manager, I got along really well with them. I I didn't, um I wasn't one of those guys that you know would bark at them the entire ball game. Nobody has a better view of a play than an umpire, typically. Now, if they were out of position and didn't have a good view, I might let them know about that. But most of the time, you know, I I I agree with umpires. When you did have a disagreement though, when did you decide to what was the diff, I guess the determining factor for you to stay in the dugout and provide feedback or step onto the field and go have some FaceTime with an umpire? When I knew I was right. Which is all the time, right? No, no, no, oh no. I mean, there are many times where there's a bang bang play at first base, and you know, the player will look at you like, oh, he's out, you know, and the umpire calls him safe. I'm not gonna run out there. I I'm I'm just not. He's right there. Now, if I see it with my eyes from where I'm sitting that he's wrong, I'll go out and have a a word or two. Um, but you know, if it's a bang bang play, it's like the ABS system now that's being used. You know, these guys are challenging and they're winning or losing by a tenth of an inch. I mean, come on, that's tough. And and I remember sitting over in the dugout screaming at the umpire because it looks like a strike. Well, it wasn't. It was a tenth of an inch off. And who's so do you like the ABS or not? I think it's interesting. I I've kind of changed my attitude about a little bit. Um, but it is definitely uh showing some of the major league umpires that have issues with calling balls and strikes. Tom, your career uh 41 years is phenomenal. What I have found really interesting with you is how you uh reinvented yourself, not even reinvented, but used your love of the game and your skills and your experience and applied it in different ways. The art of baseball. Impactful, very impactful. Well, I don't know how impactful it is, Brad, but I it was something that it's um it's it's something Tell people what that is. It's something that I'm passionate about. It's the well, the art of baseball is just my business, it encompasses a lot of things. Obviously, it I still teach privately. I give lessons to youth, um, college kids, ex ex pros. Pros will come back in the wintertime and hit with me, and you know, we'll spend some time together and get a chance to mentor some of them. Um so I mean that's where it kind of was, but it also has to do with the art that I'm creating, um and which is very unique. How you it is, and it it started. I was explaining to someone the other day, it started when I saw somebody had made um a number for a player out of the baseball seams. And I thought, well, that was really cool. And I thought, let's take it to another level. And I had a graphic artist from a sporting goods store that I used to own, and I would tell him, hey, could you do a watercolor picture of Mickey Mann? And he would send it to me, and I put the number seven with it made out of baseball seams and frame it up, and hey, it's kind of cool, you know, and put it online and sell them and raise some money for youth leagues or give back to the school district or whatever. Um, and it's graduated from there to uh uh and again I started doing that and also in mind uh giving tribute to the legends of the game. So, and it really didn't matter, but you know, uh shoeless, Joe Jackson, Ty Cobb, you know, Cy Young, Mickey Mannell, Babe Ruth, all the guys that I grew up, you know, idolizing, you know, or reading about when I was a young kid, collecting baseball cards and just really following baseball. But at some point it transitioned into um a lot of the Negro League players, uh, and especially I was asked to be a part of an organization that celebrated the 100th anniversary of the Negro Leagues and create some art and with a hundred other artists across the world uh United States, and we would donate our art and raise money for the Negro League Museum. And and it was like I was it was like I was fishing because I threw the line in the water and I hooked it, and I'm like, I'm hooked. And from that point on, um I really kind of dedicated to the Negro Leagues and the uh African American players that came up through the Negro League Times, uh, the legends and just any of them and the hardships that they endured um uh to play the game of baseball that was really so easy for us. But so a lot of my art has kind of um gone in that direction uh to Negro League players. I still do all players, I do even contemporary players, and I get them to autograph the work once in a while. But it is it is a process of taking old baseballs, balls that people don't want, or you know, the seams are coming off, they've got tear in it, whatever. It's it's waterlogged, it doesn't really matter. Um, the worse the better for me. And I will skin the baseballs and I'll use the leather, uh, I'll use the seams, and I will uh put together a portrait of uh a famous player. Yeah, I've seen your work, Tom, it is really impactful. It is so thank you. Um utilizing your background and your skills to elevate, especially the Necro League players, really impactful. Another area, um, you donated your time as an assistant coach at Sylvania Northview High School, and in 2022 they won their first state championship, and you were part of that staff. That had to be thrilling. That was that was exciting. Um it's hard to say this, but that I had as much fun winning the state championship with those kids as I did being in the World Series with the Rockies and the Boston Red Sox. I I it was so much fun to see the the community rally around all those kids and to see the excitement of those kids and the coaches that we had on the staff. Um I I just sat back and and just smiled for days. It was so much fun to see that uh take shape. And the other area, of course, is that you do some uh color play-by-play here with the mud hands. How do you like that? Well, I'm surprised they even want me back. So wait a minute, just so I know I I this in my research, uh some of the people that work with you, like pre-game, you know, they're they're getting ready for the game, but you're not in the booth, you're typically down on the field kibbitzing with the players and coaches, and you arrive right around the first inning. So your level of research is different than what's happening with your colleagues in the booth. Well, uh, yeah, I hope I'm not getting in trouble, but yeah, uh, you know, I did my research. This is well, apparently, they um that is kind of my connection. And fortunately, there's still managers and coaches in the in the league that even Gabe Alvarez, the manager for the Mud Hens, was with me when I was with the Tigers. I was the hitting coordinator when he was still playing out at Ned Skeldon, and so I had a chance to work with him, and I love him. I think he's a wonderful man and coach, and they're lucky to have him as a the manager here. But so that that's a nice connection for me to still have there's still guys like Pat Kelly, you know, at Louisville or Indianapolis, and um some of the guys that have managed the last few years that Andy Tracy, that I'm I I knew very well. Um and it's nice to stay connected. Um but yeah, that connection that I have as a former player, former coach and manager, I think it makes it very easy for me to go down there and talk to them. And um I sometimes get the inside scoop. I can't always share it on on radio or TV, but um it's nice to know you know what's going on behind the scenes a lot of times. Yeah. Let's finish this conversation with gratitude. So one of your uh underpinnings, main themes, uh core values is to start every day with gratitude. Where does that come from? Well, it stems from my upbringing with my parents, I'm sure. But I can honestly say that uh I think I've got out of bed every day and just felt very grateful for that day and for the opportunities that have been put in front of me and um grateful for having the career that I had in baseball. I tell people still to this day I've never worked a day in my life. It's it's play, it's fun, and um, I treat life that way too. I mean, I it's just I've just been so grateful and fortunate that uh the good man upstairs has kind of led me down that path, and um I can't be thankful enough. Well, Tom, this has been great. Thank you. It's been very interesting. And um just your love of the game and how you've used that love of the game in so many different venues is really impressive. And thank you for all your community and philanthropic work, and thanks for just being uh a great, great supporter of the Mud Hens and the game of baseball. Well, I appreciate you, Brad. And uh again, I'm very thankful for this opportunity and yeah, go hands, let's go. Let's go, let's go. Thank you everyone for joining us. We'll see you next time.